Konstantinos Fotiadis says:
I've seen that kind of comment quite too often for my liking and me posting this has nothing to do with my admin position, I'm expressing my own opinion as I always do.
"I don't care who runs the Trad as long I can move on with my spiritual path".
First of, congratulations to all those that still focus on their spiritual path, it's why all of got here in the first place.
Second and I think very important issue, there's a thing called "egregore" or group soul. Some traditions may refer to it as the spirit of the tradition or may use other words like Ancestors (not just the dead that joined it) but every group has it. You may find yourself in a job that you feel you don't fit with the people working there although you fit perfectly to the criteria of that job. Or you may travel to a country that seems aggressive to you, or even a town or a village.
When there are people with common attitude towards something, consciously or not, they create these energy constructs that in time get a "life" of their own.
When we go through rituals like the outer court (general membership), dedication or even the clergy initiations rituals, we connect with these energies.
Now, in an organized spiritual path, that Egregore is quite conscious and is affected by those "controlling" it. I put the word in quotes because the interaction is a bit complicated but it's the reason when a group has a leader that acts in a way, even if you haven't met them you start doing things a certain way or copying without realizing.
For me, having a leadership that lies, causes issues with stability and shows a hunger for money, is troubling. It's troubling because these actions affect all of us because we are all connected via symbols and rituals.
Next time you catch yourself thinking "i don't care", think again, is it you or an energy that makes you think that?
Again, I'm expressing my thoughts on the matter and no-one else's. Yes, I need to clarify it because I've been told 3 times so far that I'm not thinking for myself and you can all guess where that came from.
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Comments:
Cathy Dragoni
You are thinking for yourself…. But you are also speaking to things many people are thinking about. If I am following my path sincerely, do the actions of leadership matter? I had thought that as an individual I was isolated - geographically and otherwise- from all the bs. But slowly over this past week I realize this is not so true. An apology, while appropriate, does not undo the damage. To think we can simply move on is like putting a fresh coat of paint on a rotten board, and thinking your work is done.
Konstantinos Fotiadis
Cathy Dragoni do you follow the teachings of the tradition, do you invoke the ancestors at your rituals? Do you meditate at the Correllium? If there are "yes" to the questions, then you are connected.
Katyana K Du Leon-West
Just my 2 cents worth..... but as i see it...myself personally. each of you may be on a different route, but here's something that i am doing. I am furthering my studies by myself. I may not have the "rev" title before my name, but really to me its the learning of it is that more important. Im a level 2 working on my level 3 about 3 chapters finished in the textbook, and I finished 1 aspect of the digging things out from the past so you can heal. (that was a horrid experience since I have PTSD). It took me a few days to rebalance, but I made it through once again in my own ways of coping with things. To me its the learning aspect, that i'm interested in. Im no stranger to individual study, or even group study. But what I want to keep doing is moving forward. I don't think or much worry about figure heads, or by laws... for me its indeed the moving forward. The textbooks of Witchschool, are for everyone to learn something. What you do with the knowledge you learn is up to every person. Spirituality learning, isn't a box, its a living thing. Healing will come in time. It's not going to be like what it was, for change has happened. But change isn't always a bad thing, if you use it to your advantage. Just my humble opinion.
Cathy Dragoni
Katyana K Du Leon-West yes this is sort of the line of thinking I had, because the teachings are good in many ways. I guess I have been unsuccessful in mentally divorcing the teachings from the school. From CNT and it’s leadership.
Eduardo A. Ortiz Preciado
Katyana K Du Leon-West Yo también tengo Trastorno de Estrés postraumático (PTSD) y evidentemente cada persona lo procesa a su manera, pero una de las cosas de las que estoy contento y que me está enseñando ese proceso, es a alejarme de la gente que daña ese espíritu de trabajo, ese egregor, esa sensación de pertenencia y de identificación. Las enseñanzas no significan absolutamente nada sino van acompañadas de un grupo que sustente el trabajo, que está enfocado en el objetivo del progreso espiritual. Cuando hay intereses profanos y dejan de verse esos asuntos profanos como un medio para poder llegar a ese fin de progreso espiritual, entonces se rompe el egregor... Desaparece la inercia grupal de trabajo, no hay sinergia. Si se están haciendo cosas horribles con personas que han trabajado mucho por la tradición y lo que viene a tu cabeza es, debo seguir adelante y mirar a otro lado, así todo se curará, estas equivocada, las cosas no funcionan así... Con esa pasividad estas permitiendo la injusticia, el desprecio y la traición a esas mismas enseñanzas de las que hablas. Cuando se dejan de ver las jerarquías como una cuestión funcional (cada persona ejerce un oficio temporalmente con el fin de beneficiar al grupo), aparecen las castas, el endiosamiento, y el corporativismo... Decirle a la gente "si no te gusta te vas", "me lo dijeron los ancestros" solo significa una cosa: vete para que yo me quede con esta secta. Así de claro. Abrid los ojos, aterrizad, caminad por la tierra madre antes de echar vuelo, que estáis todo en el aire y os vais a estrellar.
Katyana K Du Leon-West
Eduardo A. Ortiz Preciado I learned long before coming to the Correllian teachings to walk away, from things that hurt me. This was my own personal viewpoint, not to argue against anyone, or their viewpoints. I move on in my own way, as each person moves on in theirs. As far as those "above me", doesn't affect what I do in life. I go where I choose, learn what interests me and carry on. Been doing that all of my life. I look forward, don't stew on things that leave a distaste in my mouth. I am safe and happy generally with my choices. If I make mistakes, it's just a mistake, learn what I can from it, and carry on. No one can tell me how to learn what to learn, or how I accept what I learn. That is everyone's own way of life. I don't expect others to do as I do, Im only saying what my intentions are. I am my own leader.
Katyana K Du Leon-West
In the community I empathize for hurts that have been felt. Everyone has feelings on what has happened, or is happening. The testified treatments of people have caused people to leave, or have a shadow over the tradition. But (this is MY OPINION), if you are learning for yourself, your own well being, your way of philosophies etc. The books teach a perspective. How you perceive that perspective is different for each person that reads it. I take what I like from what I read. I don't agree in some of the teachings, but that doesn't mean I dont learn from what it that suits my own philosophies. This is how I am in learning. I have studied many religions over the decades of my life, to better understand the world, this one and the next. This has been my way of life for a very long time. Learn what I can, use what benefits me, and what doesn't becomes moot. All that has gone for this past while is the shifting of power. Some people handle positions of power well, and some do not. The membership themselves have a community right here, or any group that is designated for those wanting information, scholastic or otherwise. We ARE a community. I'm sure there are those still here that still teach, instruct, mentor etc. Building a study center for those who want to continue on even if they have left the tradition formally, by resignation. (for me as I stated above, it's not the rank, its the learning. You can serve and learn without formal "church", nothing stopping me. I'm to learn what I need to know, take what's necessary from it to benefit my life, the rest is but filler. For me it's always been about perception. I didnt leave the knowledge, I left an organization that caused me too much stress. I walked away from what stressed me, not the knowledge. MY OPINION ONLY. BB
Eduardo A. Ortiz Preciado
Katyana K Du Leon-West Tu enfoque en el aprendizaje individual es comprensible y respeto tus decisiones personales y tu perspectiva sobre tu camino espiritual. Sin embargo, hay momentos en que los eventos dentro de una comunidad requieren que miremos más allá de nuestro propio camino, como es el caso del intento de retirada de los grados al reverendo Eblis Correllian.
Este acto no es solo una manifestación de injusticia; es un ataque a la representación del camino personal e individual de un miembro importante de nuestra comunidad. La esencia de nuestras enseñanzas y de nuestra tradición subyace en la coexistencia de nuestros caminos individuales con nuestra unidad colectiva. Cuando uno de nosotros es tratado injustamente, afecta la integridad y la cohesión de todo el grupo.
Entiendo tu deseo de centrarte en tu propio crecimiento y bienestar, pero no puedo evitar ver una cierta forma de egoísmo en la elección de ignorar una injusticia que afecta a la comunidad en su conjunto. No se trata de detenernos en cosas que dejan un mal sabor de boca, sino de enfrentarnos a las realidades que amenazan lo que somos y lo que representamos.
Tu viaje es tuyo, y nadie tiene el derecho de decirte cómo debes aprender o qué debes aceptar. Pero también somos parte de una tradición, y tenemos una responsabilidad compartida hacia los demás. Ignorar las injusticias no las hace desaparecer; solo permite que continúen.
Espero que puedas ver dónde me encuentro en este asunto y por qué siento que es vital no solo mirar hacia adelante sino también actuar cuando la justicia y la integridad de nuestra comunidad están en juego. Gracias por tu opinión, y espero que puedas entender mi perspectiva.
Katyana K Du Leon-West
I do understand, and as I have stated empathisize for the wrongs done. There is not much more I can do from my isolated place in the world. I withdrew for my own mental health, because of the stress of watching what was happening. I am not selfish, far from it. If you knew me in person, you wouldn't have said that. This is exactly why I go on on my own. Perception of people you don't know nor anything about their present lives, and the things going on around them in their own lives. Go in peace brother. I did not come here to fight, but give my perception of how I am going on with life, as my own opinion. You are entitled to yours, but please allow me mine without reprimand.